An Unending Journey of Longing • An Interview Regarding the Latest Attempt to Enter Uman

Last week, our teacher, the Rav, Rabbi Eliezer Berland shlit"a (may he live long and good days) was abroad. With supreme mesirus nefesh (self-sacrifice), an opportunity arose where it was possible that Rabbi Berland might be able to enter Ukraine in order to prostrate himself upon the tziyun (gravesite) of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov in the city of longing, Uman.

Below is an interview conducted on the Breslov Chassidim Information Line (*9148) with his grandson and gabbai (attendant), R' Naftali Zucker, regarding the trip:

Interviewer: Our teacher, the Rav shlit"a, has returned home after spending a week abroad. We want to hear exactly where the Rav was and what the purpose of the trip was. Joining us on the line is the grandson of our teacher the Rav shlit"a, the gabbai R' Naftali Zucker. Shalom to you.

R' Naftali Zucker: Shalom and blessings.

Interviewer: The Rav shlit"a returned home after eight days of being away. Where was the Rav, and what was the goal?

R' Naftali Zucker: Yes, as you say, the Rav indeed returned home this morning. In truth, throughout this recent period—starting back from the holidays—the Rav had already expressed his desire to go out for a short rest of a few days or a week.

He already said during the holiday season: “After the holidays, I will travel.” Afterward, the period began where the Rav underwent medical treatments, as you recall. Every day, the Rav had to undergo difficult and weakening treatments. Although the Rav endured this with immense heroism, and almost nothing was visible on the outside, in internal matters, it was very noticeable.

Therefore, it was delayed again and again. During the treatments, the Rav said: “After Chanukah.” Then family celebrations arrived—bli ayin hara (without an evil eye), there were four weddings—so a situation didn't arise where it was truly possible to go out for a rest.

Thank G-d, a week ago, a situation arose where it was finally possible to leave. After all the weddings and treatments, the Rav already required this rest following the treatments.

So the Rav expressed his desire to go out for a week of rest. That is what we did. The Rav said it was possible to travel abroad so there would be more menuchas hanefesh (peace of mind). As is known, in Israel, it is not a complete rest—there is still commitment, there is a burden. So Hashem (G-d) orchestrated it to turn out this way.

Especially after the trip that took place that same week—the previous week there was a lightning trip that also exhausted the Rav and took great strength from him—so we went abroad and were in Europe.

Interviewer: And during the rest, was there also a thought to try the matter of Uman again?

R' Naftali Zucker: Yes. During the rest, an opportunity also arose when suddenly one of the activists who always works on the Uman issue... a request arrived that perhaps there was a chance that suddenly there would be a window where it would be possible to bring the Rav into Ukraine.

We said: we are already in the area. We asked the Rav what to do—such an offer had arrived.

The Rav said: “Fine, we will try.” As they say—we will try to make an hishtadlus (effort), why not. If we succeed—how good. If not—we will continue on, everything is fine.

So, the Rav indeed reached the border and they tried to enter as usual. There were delays and such. Thank G-d, it really looked like the Rav had already entered, and had already actually crossed the Ukrainian border. But suddenly problems arose, and they demanded that the Rav return back.

Ultimately, they did not let him pass further into Ukraine. They said some documents were missing, all sorts of excuses as usual. As we already said in the previous interview: there are plenty of excuses, and it is no less significant in practice to the story.

Therefore, since this attempt did not succeed—and from the beginning, this was not the purpose of the trip, it was “on the way” anyway—we continued on our path.

Interviewer: There were rumors that they chased the Rav, that they arrested him, something like that. Was there anything to that?

R' Naftali Zucker: No, no. There is no substance to that at all. All the rumors—it was really... and the funniest thing is that the rumors started even before the Rav reached the border at all.

The Rav wasn't even in that direction yet and rumors already started: “The Rav already passed,” “He's already inside.” Afterward, they went even further, saying he was already arrested, and police chased him, and chaos... it's unbelievable and unspeakable.

So first of all, as we said, the rumors started before that. And also afterward.

Interviewer: How are rumors created if you left with such secrecy?

R' Naftali Zucker: Because that's how it is. Suddenly one person hears that the Rav went abroad—here and there—so they immediately calculate: he went abroad, so where to? Uman. Ah, he's already entered. Ah, he's already inside.

As is the way of rumors... we are already accustomed to this here in our community, thank G-d.

So that's the story: no one chased him and nothing. He simply crossed the border, and within a few minutes, they told him it was a problem and to return back.

Interviewer: So after it did not succeed, where were you? Tell us about the place.

R' Naftali Zucker: So it didn't succeed, so we continued on. We went with the Rav to an apartment. Truly a vacation apartment.

Everything there is also snow now. Everything is white. All of Europe is the color white. It was very pastoral. In such a quiet village.

Afterward, it became clear to us at the end of the stay there—from the locals—that this was a village where before the Holocaust there were many Jews. Even the mayor there was Jewish. Jews managed the place. And it was truly a historical place.

And there are many holy ones there as well. There is a mass grave. And indeed, at the end, we passed with the Rav by the mass grave. The Rav said the Tikkun HaKlali (The General Rectification) from inside the vehicle.

There was real snow, quantities of snow, and white. And like that, really good and calming air. The Rav truly sat and learned and rested. It has been a long time since he was in such a state of rest and tranquility.

You could really see the breath on him. Of course, the Rav is always working on himself, but “neiyacha” (restfulness)—it was visible on him.

And so it continued for about a week. The Rav said he would also stay for Shabbos (the Sabbath).

Interviewer: When was this? Was it last week?

R' Naftali Zucker: Yes, when we left.

We stayed there for Shabbos. Afterward, it rolled into this week for a few more days. And thank G-d, today we returned.

Interviewer: During the journey, did the Rav say anything to you?

R' Naftali Zucker: Yes. During the journey, the Rav also spoke with me a bit. He said it is very important that peace and unity be maintained in the community, that there be true ahavas chaverim (love of friends).

And he said: “And in this merit, I will live.” The more they love one another—the more I will have quality of life and robust health.

Of course, alongside the bizyonos (humiliations/shaming) and everything, but he also said: the bizyonos and also the ahavas chaverim that is within the community.

And truly everyone, everyone united together—that the Rav should be healthy and whole.

Thank G-d: if the Rav is healthy—then everyone is healthy. This brings salvation to the whole world, brings influences to everyone, certainly to the members of his community.

So thank G-d, we only pray and care for the peace and health of the Rav.

And naturally, out of great concern and such, it is impossible to provide exact information at that moment about what is happening, where the Rav is located, and why and how. Because all things are known—not everything can be told at that moment due to various reasons.

So therefore it creates pressure, and many people start to imagine and say all sorts of rumors and things. And it's justified, but what can we do—this is the situation.

So thank G-d, now we can say that the Rav truly traveled for a rest. On the way, he tried to enter, it didn't succeed—and they continued on. And thank G-d, the Rav returned home.

Interviewer: I want to understand, was the original plan to return today?

R' Naftali Zucker: No. At first, the Rav said a week. During the week we checked possibilities to return, and it rolled on until now.

Interviewer: So everything is returning to normal now? The prayers? Receiving the public? The Shabbos services?

R' Naftali Zucker: Yes. Although today the Rav will likely not receive the public. From next week, he will begin to return to full activity.

Today there will be Maariv (evening prayer) with Hashem's help. And on the Holy Shabbos, the Rav will go out for all the prayers with Hashem's help, and so on and so forth.

We will go up in holiness with Hashem's help, with great strength and might, with immense strengthening. And with Hashem's help, the Rav will renew his strength.

May there only be strength and health for the Rav and for everyone, may there be joy and gladness, and may sorrow and sighing flee away. There will be no more lashon hara (evil speech), nor talk, nor gossip—everything will be in a pleasant and pure atmosphere. Amen.

Interviewer: I must ask: after the Rav tried to enter again and did not succeed—how does the Rav react? It's a bit “week after week,” is it not discouraging?

R' Naftali Zucker: Correct. But the Rav, in his way, said: “Rabbeinu (our teacher, Rebbe Nachman) is with us.” Once again, the same words that the Rav said.

We are always with Rabbeinu. The Rebbe is with me. Rabbeinu is with us. We were with Rabbeinu.

And he even said it afterward: we are with Rabbeinu all the time, all this week. We are close, we are in the area. He was truly revitalized by the place, in his holy way.

Thank G-d. Rabbi Naftali Zucker, thank you very much for sharing with us. R' Naftali Zucker: With great joy, may there be good news.

From here, the call goes out to continue to entreat in prayer and supplication that we may merit that our teacher and master,

The Gaon and Tzaddik Rabbi Eliezer ben Ettia Berland shlit"a

succeeds in overcoming those who prevent him

and merits to prostrate himself upon the holy tziyun (gravesite) of Rebbe Nachman of Breslov zy"a (may his merit protect us).